Y
Pellennig –The Remotest Hills of Wales – Significant Name Changes
Y
Pellennig –The Remotest Hills of Wales comprise all Welsh hills whose
summit is 2.5km or more from the nearest paved public road and which have a
minimum 15m of drop. The list is
available on Mapping Mountains and has also been published by Mapping Mountains Publications, with a Change Register also created for the list.
The list is co-authored by
Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams and the posts that have appeared on Mapping
Mountains detailing the significant name changes to the hills in this list
appear below presented chronologically in receding order.
Mapping Mountains - Significant Name Changes - Y Pellennig - The Remotest Hills of Wales
Craig Gwrelyg (SO 055 203) - 8th significant name change
Craig Gwrelyg (SO 055 203) - 8th significant name change
There has been a Significant Name Change to a hill that is listed in the Yr Uchafion and Y Pellennig - The Remotest Hills of Wales, with the summit height, drop and status of the hill initially ascertained by LIDAR analysis conducted by Aled Williams and later confirmed by a Trimble GeoXH 6000 survey conducted by Myrddyn Phillips which took place on the 30th June 2018.
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| LIDAR image of Craig Gwrelyg |
The criteria for the two listings that this name change applies to are:
Yr Uchafion – Welsh hills at or above 500m in height that have 15m minimum drop. The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams, with the Introduction to the list appearing on Mapping Mountains on the 4th November 2015.
Y Pellennig –The Remotest Hills of Wales - Welsh hills whose summit is at least 2.5km from the nearest paved public road and the hill has a minimum 15m of drop. The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams and is available as a downloadable e-booklet or print-booklet version on Mapping Mountains Publications with the up-to-date master list available on Mapping Mountains in Google Doc format.
The hill is adjoined to the Bannau Brycheiniog (Brecon Beacons) group of hills, which are situated in the South Wales Region (Region C, Sub-Region C2), and it is positioned between the towns of Aberhonddu (Brecon) towards its north and Merthyr Tudful to its south.
The hill first made an appearance in a published hill list in the 1940 edition of the Rucksack Club Journal when Ted Moss listed it as Craig Cwareli in his list entitled The Two-thousands of Wales. The hill has since been listed by a variety of names including; Craig Pwllfa (subsid), Gwaun Cerrig Llwydion, Bwlch y Ddwyallt and Graig Fan Las.
Hill list authors are prone to list a hill by the name that appears nearest to its summit on contemporary Ordnance Survey maps, without much consideration for its local or historical confirmation, or whether map placement is appropriate, and in the case of this hill the name of Bwlch y Ddwyallt appears close to this hill’s summit on contemporary Ordnance Survey 1:25,000 Explorer maps.
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| Extract from the Ordnance Survey 1:25,000 Explorer map |
When this hill was first included in the Yr Uchafion it was listed as Bwlch y Ddwyallt, it was only towards the end of the compilation of this list that place-name enquiries were made with local people including farmers, grazers and landowners.
One of the locals contacted in this area has his family farm to the north of this hill and gave the name of Gurelig Rocks for the cliffs to the immediate north and north-west of this hill’s summit. This name is an anglicised version of Craig Gwrelyg with the cwm of the same name given on the Ordnance Survey One-Inch ‘Old Series’ map.
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| Extract from the Ordnance Survey One-Inch 'Old Series' map |
The name of the cliffs to the immediate north of this hill’s summit was given this person by his father, and when asked about the name of Cwm Cwareli which appears on contemporary Ordnance Survey maps, he had never heard of it. He also confirmed that Bwlch y Ddwyallt is the name of the bwlch between this hill and Waun Rydd (SO 062 206) and is not applicable to the hill itself.
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| The cliffs of Craig Gwrelyg |
Therefore, the name this hill is now listed by in the Yr Uchafion and Y Pellennig – The Remotest Hills of Wales is Craig Gwrelyg and this was derived from local enquiry.
The full details for the hill are:
Group: Bannau Brycheiniog
Name: Craig Gwrelyg
Previously Listed Name: Bwlch y Ddwyallt
Summit Height: 753.9m (converted to OSGM15)
OS 1:50,000 map: 160
Summit Grid Reference: SO 05521 20383
Drop: 18.9m (converted to OSGM15)
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| Gathering data with the Trimble GeoXH 6000 at the summit of Craig Gwrelyg |
Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams (November 2018)
Mapping Mountains - Significant Name Changes - Y Pellennig - The Remotest Hills of Wales
Esgair Cerrig (SN 952 432) - 7th significant name change
Survey post for Esgair Cerrig
Summit Relocations post for Esgair Cerrig
There has been a Significant Name Change to a hill that is listed in Y Pellennig - The Remotest Hills of Wales and the Y Pedwarau, with the summit height, drop and status of the hill being confirmed by a Trimble GeoXH 6000 survey which was conducted on the 28th December 2016, with the summit of the hill previously analysed via LIDAR data by Aled Williams.
The criteria for the two lists that this name change applies to are:
Y Pellennig –The Remotest Hills of Wales comprise all Welsh hills whose summit is 2.5km or more from the nearest paved public road and which have a minimum 15m of drop. The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams.
Y Pedwarau - These are the Welsh hills at and above 400m and below 500m in height that have 30m minimum drop. The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams, with the introduction to the Mapping Mountains publication of this list appearing on the 30th January 2017.
The hill is a part of the Mynydd Epynt range, this group of hills is situated in the south-eastern part of Mid and West Wales (Region B, Sub-Region B-2), and is positioned above the small community of Llangamarch (Llangammarch Wells) to the north north-west and the small town of Llanwrtyd (Llanwrtyd Wells) to the west north-west.
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| Esgair Cerrig (SN 952 432) |
The hill appeared in the 400m P30 list on Geoff Crowder’s v-g.me website under the name Twyn Rhyd-car North Top, with an accompanying note stating Name from hill to the south. Hill list authors are prone to list a hill by the name that appears nearest to its summit on Ordnance Survey maps, without much consideration for its local or historical confirmation, or whether map placement is appropriate, and when the hill is unnamed on Ordnance Survey maps list authors are prone to either invent a name for the hill, supplant a name from a near feature that can result in an inappropriate name or they can use a directional name from a near named hill, and in the case of this hill it was the latter that I opted for, using the name of Twyn Rhyd Car and adding the directional element of North Top.
Twyn Rhyd-car North Top
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456m
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147/160
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188
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Name from hill to the South
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This is not a practice that I now advocate as with time and inclination place-name data can be improved either by asking local people or by examining historical documents, through this form of research an appropriate name for the hill can usually be found, and in the case of this hill it was a local farmer who gave the name Esgair Cerrig for land taking in the summit of this hill.
Therefore, the name this hill is now listed by in Y Pellennig - The Remotest Hills of Wales and Y Pedwarau is Esgair Cerrig and this was derived from local enquiry.
The full details for the hill are:
Group: Mynydd Epynt
Name: Esgair Cerrig
Previously Listed Name: Twyn Rhyd-car North Top
Summit Height: 456.4m (converted to OSGM15)
OS 1:50,000 map: 147, 160
Summit Grid Reference: SN 95224 43297
Drop: 35.6m (converted to OSGM15)
Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams (January 2017)
Mapping Mountains - Significant Name Changes - Y Pellennig - The Remotest Hills of Wales
Bryn Llwyd (SN 835 920) - 6th significant name change
1st survey post for Bryn Llwyd
2nd survey post for Bryn Llwyd
Hill Reclassifications post for Bryn Llwyd
Summit Relocations post for Bryn Llwyd
There has been a Significant Name Change to a hill that appears in the following listings, Y Pellennig - The Remotest Hills of Wales, Yr Uchafion and the 500m Twmpau, with the height, drop, summit relocation and status of the hill being confirmed by a survey with the Trimble GeoXH 6000 which took place on the 5th May 2016 and the 13th May 2016.
The criteria for the three listings that this name change applies to are:
Y Pellennig –The Remotest Hills of Wales comprise all Welsh hills whose summit is 2.5km or more from the nearest paved public road and which have a minimum 15m of drop. The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams.
Yr Uchafion - All Welsh hills at or above 500m in height that have 15m minimum drop. The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams.
The hill is a part of the Pumlumon range, which is an extensive group of hills in the north-western part of Mid and West Wales, and it is relatively remote for a Welsh hill with the nearest small community being Penffordd-las (Staylittle) to the east.
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| The Trimble GeoXH 6000 gathering data at the summit of Bryn Llwyd |
The listed summit of this hill has been relocated from Bryn yr Ŵyn at SN 83919 92571 to Bryn Llwyd at SN 83574 92022, with the latter surveyed with the Trimble GeoXH 6000 as being 1.5m higher.
The hill first made an appearance in a hill list in 1997 when John Kirk listed it as Bryn Yr Wyn, using the name of the adjacent hill but with the correct grid reference in his Kirk’s BIG Mountain List, this list that remains unpublished but available via the author. The adjacent lower hill was later included by Michael Dewey and listed as Bryn yr Wyn in the April 2002 edition of Strider, which included the updates to The 500-Metre Tops of England and Wales list that appeared in his Mountain tables book published by Constable in 1995. The summit of the Dewey was later relocated due to the Trimble GeoXH 6000 survey to the higher summit and listed as Esgair Greolen.
Prior to making local place-name enquiries the now known higher summit was accepted as being named Esgair Greolen, and since this summit has usurped its neighbour as being the higher, this is the name used in Michael’s list to The 500-Metre Tops of England and Wales.
Hill list authors are prone to list a hill by the name that appears nearest to its summit on contemporary Ordnance Survey maps, without much consideration for its local or historical confirmation, or whether map placement is appropriate. However, place-name data can be improved by asking local people and examining historical documents, and on the way to survey this hill for the second time with the Trimble GeoXH 6000 I made place-name enquiries with the local farmer, who kindly took me up in his two seater quad bike toward the hill. Afterward both Aled and I examined a number of historical maps for evidence of where the name of Esgair Greolen originated and where it is applicable to.
The local farmer I met is named Gareth Griffith and he had farmed from Nant-yr-hafod for forty years, he was out with his dogs heading up the hill to feed the sheep. As we chatted I asked him about the names of the local hills, and he rolled off name after name of the local hills and streams, one in particular proved extremely interesting, it related to the hill that Ordnance Survey maps name as Esgair Greolen, which was the hill I wanted to concentrate the morning’s surveying activities on. Gareth knew this hill as Bryn Llwyd, and said that ‘this name doesn’t appear on the map.’ I asked him about the name of Esgair Greolen, and he had never heard of it.
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| Gareth Griffith |
Gareth gave me a lift up the hill on his two seater quad bike and dropped me off at the end of the track close to the forested summit of Fedw Ddu. From this vantage point we were looking across to Bryn yr Ŵyn and also the hill I planned on prioritising to survey, and Gareth pointed toward each and named them, Bryn yr Ŵyn and Bryn Llwyd, the latter is the hill named as Esgair Greolen on contemporary Ordnance Survey maps.
When back home I examined old Ordnance Survey maps and forwarded the details of my meeting with Gareth Griffith to Aled, who proceeded to research where the name of Esgair Greolen originated and what feature this name may be applicable to. Aled’s comments relating to this appear in the 2nd edition of Y Pellennig - The Remotest Hills of Wales, and are reproduced below:
The OS have applied the name Esgair Greolen to this hill since the 1901 Six-Inch map, however earlier OS maps provide conflicting information regarding the positions of the steams named Nant Esgair Greolen and Nant y Barcud, which casts uncertainty over the exact position of Esgair Greolen. A single local contact failed to confirm Esgair Greolen as the name of this hill, but instead visually identified the hill as being known as Bryn Llwyd.
Extracts from a number of Ordnance Survey maps appear below giving detail relating to the name placement of Esgair Greolen and the steams of Nant Esgair Greolen and Nant y Barcud.
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| Extract from the Ordnance Survey One-Inch 'Old Series' map |
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| Extract from the 1886 Ordnance Survey Six-Inch map |
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| Extract from the 1903 Ordnance Survey Six-Inch map with the stream previously recorded as Nant y Barcud now recorded as the Nant Esgair Greolen |
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| Extract from the Ordnance Survey 1903 Six-Inch map where the name Esgair Greolen first appeared on an Ordnance Survey map |
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| Extract from the current Ordnance Survey 1:25,000 Explorer map |
As a result of this research the hill has subsequently been listed under the name of Bryn Llwyd in Y Pellennig – The Remotest Hills of Wales, Yr Uchafion and the 500m Twmpau, and this name was derived from local enquiry and does not appear on any Ordnance Survey map.
The full details for the hill are:
Group: Pumlumon
Name: Bryn Llwyd
Previously Listed Name: Esgair Greolen
Summit Height: 501.4m (converted to OSGM15 and average of four summit surveys)
OS 1:50,000 map: 135, 136
Summit Grid Reference: SN 83574 92022
Drop: 30.3m (converted to OSGM15)
For details on the 1st survey and the 2nd survey of Bryn Llwyd
Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams (December 2016)
Mapping Mountains - Significant Name Changes - Y Pellennig - The Remotest Hills of Wales
Cerrig Coegion (SN 790 176) - 5th significant name change
Survey post for Cerrig Coegion
There has been a Significant Name Change to a hill that appears in the following lists; Y Pellennig - The Remotest Hills of Wales and Y Pedwarau, with the following details relating to a hill that was surveyed with the Trimble GeoXH 6000 on the 10th July 2014.
The criteria for the two listings that this name change affects are:
Y Pellennig –The Remotest Hills of Wales comprise all Welsh hills whose summit is 2.5km or more from the nearest paved public road and which have a minimum 15m of drop. The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams.
Y Pedwarau - These are the Welsh hills at and above 400m and below 500m in height that have 30m minimum drop, with the introduction to the publication of this list on Mapping Mountains appearing on the 30th January 2017. The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams.
The hill is situated in the Y Mynydd Du, this range of hills forms the western part of the Brecon Beacons National Park (Parc Cenedlaethol Bannau Brycheiniog), and takes in the remotest land in mainland Wales with the hill listed as the third remotest in distance from its summit to the nearest paved public road in the whole of mainland Wales. The nearest towns to the hill are Ystradgynlais to the south and the small community of Glyntawe to the east.
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| The Trimble GeoXH 6000 gathering data at the summit of Cerrig Coegion (SN 790 176) |
The hill first made an appearance in a hill list as Pen Bwlch y Ddeuwynt in the The Welsh 400m Peaks which was compiled by Myrddyn Phillips and made available to the rhb Yahoo Group file database by Rob Woodall in 2002. This listing was subsequently published on Geoff Crowder’s v-g.me website in 2004 and was the originator for the list named Y Pedwarau and which is now co-authored with Aled Williams.
The hill originally appeared in the rhb Yahoo Group file database and the v-g.me website under an invented name; Pen Bwlch y Ddeuwynt, with an accompanying note on the v-g.me website stating; Name from bwlch to the North-West. As was my liking during my early hill listing I thought it appropriate to invent a name for a hill if no name seemed to appear for it on Ordnance Survey maps of the day. My preference was to use the nearest name to the summit that appeared on the map and prefix it with the word Pen, Bryn or Moel. This is not a practice that I now advocate as with research either conducted locally or historically an appropriate name for the hill can usually be found. Extensive place-name research has subsequently taken place for the hill range of Y Mynydd Du and these details are included in Y Pedwarau and Y Pellennig – The Remotest Hills of Wales.
Pen Bwlch y Ddeuwynt
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474m
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160
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12
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Trig pillar at 471m to the South. Name from bwlch to the North-West.
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The name this hill is now listed by in the Y Pedwarau and Y Pellennig – The Remotest Hills of Wales is Cerrig Coegion. This name was derived from local enquiry as well as historical documentation with the following brief explanation appearing in the booklet version of Y Pellennig – The Remotest Hills of Wales:
The name is also recorded in ‘Bugail y Mynydd Du’ by Rhys Davies.
The full details for the hill are:
Group: Y Mynydd Du
Name: Cerrig Coegion
Previously Listed Name: Pen Bwlch y Ddeuwynt
Summit Height: 473.4m (converted to OSGM15)
OS 1:50,000 map: 160
Summit Grid Reference: SN 79087 17673
Drop: c 56m
Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams (July 2016)
Mapping Mountains - Significant Name Changes - Y Pellennig - The Remotest Hills of Wales
Craig Berwyn (SJ 071 323) - 4th significant name change
Summit survey post for Craig Berwyn
Bwlch survey post for Craig Berwyn
There has been a Significant Name Change to a hill that appears in the following lists; Y Pellennig, Yr Uchafion, 800m Twmpau and Y Trechol - The Dominant Hills of Wales, with the following details relating to a hill whose summit was surveyed with the Trimble GeoXH 6000 on the 21st June 2014 and its bwlch on the 13th September 2019.
The criteria for the four listings that this name change affects are:
Y Pellennig –The Remotest Hills of Wales comprise all Welsh hills whose summit is 2.5km or more from the nearest paved public road and which have a minimum 15m of drop. The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams.
Yr Uchafion - All Welsh hills at or above 500m in height that have 15m minimum drop. The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams.
800m Twmpau - All Welsh hills at or above 800m and below 900m in height with 30m minimum drop. The list is authored by Myrddyn Phillips.
Y Trechol - The Dominant Hills of Wales - These are the Welsh P30 hills whose prominence equal or exceed half that of their absolute height. With the criteria for Lesser Dominant status being those addition Welsh P30 hills whose prominence is 33% or more and below 50% of their absolute height.
The hill is situated in the Y Berwyn, which is an extensive group of hills positioned in the south-eastern part of north Wales, and is relatively remote for a Welsh hill with the nearest towns being Llandrillo to the north-west and Llanarmon Dyffryn Ceiriog to the east.
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| The Trimble GeoXH 6000 gathering data at the summit of Craig Berwyn (SJ 071 323) with the trig pillar atop Cadair Berwyn (SJ 072 327) in the background on the left |
The hill first made an appearance in a hill list as Cader Berwyn, S. Top in a 1929 update to the Twenty-Fives which was compiled by John Rooke Corbett and published by the Rucksack Club Journal. Since this time the hill has been listed a number of times and usually by names associated with that of Cadair Berwyn, which strictly speaking is the hill to its north positioned at SJ 072 327, and which has a triangulation pillar situated at its summit and a map height of 827m.
Unfortunately all previous hill list authors have used the map name that appears nearest to the summit of this hill, although doing this is convenient it has conjured up all manner of combinations of inappropriate names centred around that of its adjacent hill, these names include; Cadair Berwyn New Top, Cadair Berwyn South Top as well as the use of the adjacent hill’s name; Cadair Berwyn.
The hill was only confirmed by the Ordnance Survey as the highest in the Y Berwyn when contacted by Bernard Wright who had recognised that the summit of the hill was higher than its adjacent northerly peak; Cadair Berwyn, and also higher than its adjacent southerly peak; Moel Sych, Bernard suggested the name of Craig Uchaf for this hill as it seemingly had no name for it on the map of the day. This is the name previously given the hill in unpublished format within the Yr Uchafion prior to extensive place-name research for this area taking place.
As a result of this research the hill has subsequently appeared under the name of Craig Berwyn in all four of the previously mentioned lists, this is the name that some local farmers and shepherds know the hill by, ironically this name already appears on Ordnance Survey 1:50,000 Landranger and 1:25,000 Explorer maps.
The full details for the hill are:
Group: Y Berwyn
Name: Craig Berwyn
Previously Listed Name: Craig Uchaf
Summit Height: 832.0m (converted to OSGM15)
OS 1:50,000 map: 125
Summit Grid Reference: SJ 07163 32351
Drop: 347.3m
Dominance: 41.74%
Dominance: 41.74%
Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams (July 2016)
Mapping Mountains - Significant Name Changes - Y Pellennig - The Remotest Hills of Wales
Mynydd Lluest y Rhos (SN 765 920) - 3rd significant name change
Survey post for Mynydd Lluest y Rhos
There has been a Significant Name Change to a hill that appears in the following listings, Y Pellennig - The Remotest Hills of Wales, Yr Uchafion and the 500m Twmpau, with the following details relating to a hill that was surveyed with the Trimble GeoXH 6000 on the 18th May 2014.
The criteria for the three listings that this name change affects are:
Y Pellennig –The Remotest Hills of Wales comprise all Welsh hills whose summit is 2.5km or more from the nearest paved public road and which have a minimum 15m of drop. The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams.
Yr Uchafion - All Welsh hills at or above 500m in height that have 15m minimum drop. The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams.
500m Twmpau - All Welsh hills at or above 500m and below 600m in height with 30m minimum drop. The list is authored by Myrddyn Phillips.
The hill is situated in the Pumlumon group of hills, and is relatively remote for a Welsh hill with the nearest towns being Machynlleth towards the north, Tal-y-bont towards the west, Ponterwyd towards the south and Penffordd-las (Staylittle) towards the east.
The criteria for the three listings that this name change affects are:
Y Pellennig –The Remotest Hills of Wales comprise all Welsh hills whose summit is 2.5km or more from the nearest paved public road and which have a minimum 15m of drop. The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams.
Yr Uchafion - All Welsh hills at or above 500m in height that have 15m minimum drop. The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams.
500m Twmpau - All Welsh hills at or above 500m and below 600m in height with 30m minimum drop. The list is authored by Myrddyn Phillips.
The hill is situated in the Pumlumon group of hills, and is relatively remote for a Welsh hill with the nearest towns being Machynlleth towards the north, Tal-y-bont towards the west, Ponterwyd towards the south and Penffordd-las (Staylittle) towards the east.
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| Mynydd Lluest y Rhos (SN 765 920) |
The hill first made an appearance in an unpublished hill list in 1985 when Tony Blackburn listed it as top S Hafodwnog in his The 500 Metre Tops of England and Wales, and it was later included by Michael Dewey as Foel Grafiau in The 500-Metre Tops of England and Wales list that appeared in his Mountain tables book published by Constable in 1995.
Hill list authors are prone to list a hill by the name that appears nearest to its summit on Ordnance Survey maps, without much consideration for its local or historical confirmation, or whether map placement is appropriate. However, place-name data can be improved by asking local people and examining historical documents and since this hill’s inclusion by Michael Dewey in his 500-Metre Tops list the area where this hill is situated has been examined via a number of documents including the Tithe map.
As a result this hill has subsequently been listed by the name Mynydd Lluest y Rhos in the Y Pellennig – The Remotest Hills of Wales list, with the following explanation appearing in the Notes section of the booklet version of the list:
Name taken from an 1844 tithe map, which confirms this hill as being the highest point on the former sheep-walk of Lluest y Rhos.
The term Tithe map is generally given to a map of a Welsh or English parish or township and which was prepared after the 1836 Tithe Commutation Act. This act allowed tithes to be paid in cash rather than goods. The Tithe maps gave names of owners and occupiers of land in each parish and importantly for place-name research they also included the name of enclosed land. This enclosed land is usually based on a field system, however not every field is given a name, but many are and especially so in Wales.
The sheep-walk is an English term given to enclosed land that is apportioned to a specific farm. The Welsh term for this land is cynefin, which can literally be translated as habitat, as in that for the sheep. The cynefin usually takes in high land that is known as the mountain land of the specific farm, therefore the name given to this enclosed land is usually that of the name of the farm prefixed with the word mynydd, this being the Welsh word for mountain, this land is usually given over for sheep grazing, hence the term sheep-walk. When Ordnance Survey maps are examined one can find many examples where this form of cynefin naming system exists, with farms situated in valley’s having their name given to high mountain land and prefixed with the word mynydd.
The full details for the hill are:
Group: Pumlumon
Name: Mynydd Lluest y Rhos
Previously Listed Name: Foel Cerrigbrithion
Summit Height: 528.3m (converted to OSGM15)
OS 1:50,000 map: 135
Summit Grid Reference: SN 76543 92029
Drop: 30.0m (converted to OSGM15)
Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams (July 2016)
Mapping Mountains - Significant Name Changes - Y Pellennig - The Remotest Hills of Wales
Bwa’r Llyn (SN 798 214) - 2nd significant name change
Survey post for Bwa'r Llyn
There has been a Significant Name Change to a hill that is listed in the Y Pellennig - The Remotest Hills of Wales and the Yr Uchafion, with the following details relating to a hill that was surveyed with the Trimble GeoXH 6000 on the 14th April 2014.
The criteria for the two listings that this name change affects are:
Y Pellennig –The Remotest Hills of Wales comprise all Welsh hills whose summit is 2.5km or more from the nearest paved public road and which have a minimum 15m of drop. The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams.
Yr Uchafion - All Welsh hills at or above 500m in height that have 15m minimum drop. The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams.
The criteria for the two listings that this name change affects are:
Y Pellennig –The Remotest Hills of Wales comprise all Welsh hills whose summit is 2.5km or more from the nearest paved public road and which have a minimum 15m of drop. The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams.
Yr Uchafion - All Welsh hills at or above 500m in height that have 15m minimum drop. The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams.
The hill is situated in the Y Mynydd Du, which is a range of hills forming the western part of the Brecon Beacons National Park (Parc Cenedlaethol Bannau Brycheiniog) in south Wales, and is relatively remote for a Welsh hill with the nearest towns being Ystradgynlais to the south and Llanymddwfri (Landovery) to the north.
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| Bwa'r Llyn (SN 798 214) |
The hill first made an appearance in a hill list in the late 1920’s when Arthur St George Walsh listed it as Bannau Sir Gaer, and it was also included by Ted Moss under the name of Banau Sir Gaer Point W in The Two-Thousands of Wales which was published in the 1940 Rucksack Club Journal.
Unfortunately these early listings are now almost forgotten, but their use of 50ft, either as a prominence value or as a single ring contour, has been used in more recent times in its 15m whole numbered metric equivalent, one example being by John and Anne Nuttall within their guide to The Mountains of England and Wales Volume 1 Wales. However, this hill was not included in their first edition to the Welsh mountains and was only later included due to details sent them after a rudimentary survey of the hill had taken place.
This hill’s prominence was surveyed using a rudimentary staff five times over four visits, with the details forwarded to John and Anne Nuttall who subsequently surveyed the hill using their own rudimentary method. Importantly the details of the surveys were sent to John and Anne under the hill name of Waun Lefrith, which is the name that appears closest to this hill’s summit on contemporary Ordnance Survey 1:50,000 Landranger maps.
This hill’s inclusion as a Nuttall was confirmed via a letter and it made its appearance under the name of Waun Lefrith in the 2nd Edition of their guide which was published in 1999.
Hill list authors are prone to list a hill by the name that appears nearest to its summit on Ordnance Survey maps, without much consideration for its local or historical confirmation. However, place-name data can be improved by asking local people and examining historical documents and since this hill’s inclusion as a Nuttall extensive place-name research has taken place for this hill range, and the subsequent details are included in the Y Pellennig – The Remotest Hills of Wales list.
The name used for this hill in Y Pellennig – The Remotest Hills of Wales (Europeaklist, Haroldstreet, v-g.me and Mapping Mountains 2015) is Bwa’r Llyn. This name is based on local enquiry and historical Ordnance Survey maps.
The full details for the hill are:
Group: Y Mynydd Du
Name: Bwa’r Llyn
Previously Listed Name: Waun Lefrith
Summit Height: 676.2m (converted to OSGM15, Trimble GeoXH 6000)
OS 1:50,000 map: 160
Summit Grid Reference: SN 79820 21451 (Trimble GeoXH 6000)
Drop: 16.1m (Trimble GeoXH 6000 summit and LIDAR bwlch)
Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams (June 2016)
Mapping Mountains - Significant Name Changes - Y Pellennig - The Remotest Hills of Wales
Trwsgl (SH 664 679) - 1st significant name change
Survey post for Trwsgl
There has been a Significant Name Change to a hill that is listed in the Y Pellennig - The Remotest Hills of Wales, Yr Uchafion and the 700m Twmpau, with the following details relating to a hill that was surveyed with the Trimble GeoXH 6000 on the 10th March 2014.
The criteria for the three listings that this name change affects are:
Y Pellennig –The Remotest Hills of Wales comprise all Welsh hills whose summit is 2.5km or more from the nearest paved public road and which have a minimum 15m of drop. The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams.
Yr Uchafion - All Welsh hills at or above 500m in height that have 15m minimum drop. The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams.
700m Twmpau - All Welsh hills at or above 700m and below 800m in height with 30m minimum drop. The list is authored by Myrddyn Phillips.
The hill is situated in the Carneddau, which is a group of hills forming the northern boundary of Eryri (Snowdonia). This hill range takes in a number of 3,000ft peaks and offers excellent hill walking. The hill forms a part of the westerly ridge descending from Carnedd Uchaf (SH 686 669) and is positioned to the east north-east of Bethesda and to the south of Abergwyngregyn.
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| Trwsgl (SH 664 679) |
The hill was first listed by Arthur St George Walsh in his late 1920’s unpublished compilation to The 2000-footers of England and Wales, and first made an appearance in a published hill list in the 1940 Rucksack Club Journal in Ted Moss’s list to The-Two Thousands of Wales. These early listings included this hill under the composition of Y Drosgl and Drosgl respectively, both followed the composition of this hill’s name on maps of the day.
The changes to the composition for this hill's name on Ordnance Survey and Bartholomew maps are detailed below:
OS 1816 Draft Surveyors Map: Y Trwsgol
OS 1841 One-Inch ‘Old Series’ Map: Y Drosgl
OS 1888 Six-Inch Map: Drosgol
OS 1901 Six-Inch Map: Drosgl
Bartholomew 1920’s Half-Inch: Y Drosgl
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| Excerpt from the 1816 Ordnance Survey Draft Surveyors Map |
Hill list authors usually accept the name given the hill on the map of the day, without further enquiries being made. However, as with numerical data where there are now independent surveyors producing accurate heights for hills that are fed in to hill lists, there are also people undertaking extensive place-name research that produce more appropriate names for hills than those currently in use and these are also fed in to hill lists. This research is based on local enquiry and historical documentation, and as with accurate surveyed heights that improve data within listings, place-name research does likewise.
In the case of this hill it was Aled Williams who conducted extensive local enquiries with the people who work the land where this hill is situated and whose families have lived in this area for generations. During this research he found that the preferred pronunciation of the hill’s name is Trwsgl which favours that first documented by the Ordnance Survey with the variation that the definite article ‘Y’ has been dropped.
This hill has subsequently been listed under the name of Trwsgl in Y Pellennig – The Remotest Hills of Wales (Europeaklist, Haroldstreet, v-g.me and Mapping Mountains 2015) with the following explanation appearing in the booklet version of the list:
Names given for the hills in this list follow correct Welsh usage and are taken from a variety of sources, not just the paper and online mapping produced by the Ordnance Survey. OS maps of Wales are not always correct in the naming of a hill, or may give a spelling that does not conform to correct Welsh usage. Importantly, if no name has been discovered for a hill from any source, it is referred to as Pt. xxm (Pt. for ‘Point’ or ‘Pwynt’), using the generally accepted convention, rather than making up a bogus name for which there is no historical or local evidence of use.
An example of this thoughtful naming policy is highlighted by the 757m hill at grid reference SH 663 679, which is listed in this booklet as ‘Trwsgl’. The hill appears under the name ‘Drosgl’ in the Welsh Nuttalls and Hewitts hill lists respectively, following the composition of the name that appears on contemporary OS maps. The translation of this name into English is rendered as ‘rough land’ and both trosgl (y drosgl) and trwsgl are accepted variations of the same adjective. However, ‘Trwsgl’ was the form originally recorded for this hill by the OS in 1816 and extensive research conducted for this listing found that this is still the most used form locally. We believe that instances like this enrich the listing and provide an element of historical interest to the publication.
The full details for the hill are:
Group: Carneddau
Name: Trwsgl
Previously Listed Name: Drosgl
Summit Height: 756.9m (converted to OSGM15)
OS 1:50,000 map: 115
Summit Grid Reference: SH 66387 67984
Drop: 36.6m (converted to OSGM15)
Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams (June 2016)
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